First Response with PepperBall CEO Bob Plaschke
"First Response," is an interview series hosted by PepperBall CEO Bob Plaschke. This series aims to shine a spotlight on the thought leaders within the public safety industry and provide a platform for these individuals to share their experiences, insights, and the valuable lessons they've learned through their careers in law enforcement.
First Response with PepperBall CEO Bob Plaschke
First Response Podcast with Bob Plaschke, Episode 21 - Captain Kristen Neubauer (Ret.) - Behind The Badge, Beyond The Bias
The sirens fade and the real work begins. That’s where Kristen Neubauer, former captain and investigator with the Niagara County Sheriff's Office, takes us. Into the spaces where competence erodes bias, where leaders guard their team’s energy like a scarce resource, and where evidence, not instinct, carries the truth across the finish line. From being the only woman in her academy to leading complex investigations, she shares how pressure can unify teams and how empathy, used wisely, keeps you human without letting the job hollow you out.
We explore the difference between patrol’s volatility and an investigator’s long exposure to trauma, and why that distinction matters for mental health. Kristen breaks down what follow‑through with families looks like, how to be present without making promises the facts can’t support, and why small, timely check‑ins can change how people carry their grief. Her candor about leaving before burnout hits is a roadmap for anyone in a demanding role: know your energy, plan your exit at a high point, and carry your skills forward with intention.
The conversation turns into a masterclass on communication and decision‑making. If you care about public safety, resilience, and the craft of finding truth in noisy systems, this story will stick with you long after the credits. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs these insights, and leave a review to tell us what challenged your thinking.
Well, good morning or good afternoon, wherever you may be. The front line is loud, but the voices behind it are louder. I'm Bob Plaschke, and this is First Response, the number one podcast that takes you behind the badge and uncovers real stories and experiences of first responders from all walks of life and the topics shaping public safety today. Hopefully, you're curious about the human behind the hero, and they are indeed heroes, and the topics that drive policing and uh firefighting. Well, this is your front row seat, so let's get started. This podcast is sponsored by Pepperball, where I have the honor to serve as the Chief Executive Officer. Pepperball creates non-lethal alternatives to guns that police use to keep themselves and the public they serve safe. Well, today I'm super excited. We're joined by Kristin Neubauer. Kristin has a decorated uh career in policing in the great state of New York in the county of Niagara, which is home to Buffalo Bills, um, where she served um honorably and in a dedicated way, making her uh kind of rising all the way up to captain. Um she left the profession and uh nine years ago and now, after um getting advanced degrees, is a um leadership coach and helps um um organizations like ours, like Garden Ball, to better understand how to take lessons learned from policing um and apply them to um kind of uh the kind of everyday situations, corporate life and and whatnot. Kristen, it's great to have you. The first question I have, and you and I discussed this before we started the recording, is um you'll be the first um uh woman that I've had on who was um you know a senior position as a police officer. Uh when you joined, um, was it difficult? Uh was it was a difficult choice for you? Was it um something you thought a lot about to be a police officer? Um how did you make your decision to to become a to serve?
Speaker:Well, it it wasn't a difficult choice. It was it seems looking back, it was quite some time ago now, that it was a career path that I always was drawn to. Uh I had joined uh Army Reserves as well. And I I like the paramilitary and the structure. And um so it wasn't a difficult choice in the least bit. I I didn't second guess anything about it when I went through the process. And uh luckily and I was blessed to have the career that I had.
Speaker 1:And in the training that you went through, so you went through uh some type of an academy. Um, I assume you were more in the minority than the majority in the context of being a woman at the time.
Speaker:Yes, I'm trying to remember the number in my academy. Uh, there were, let's say, conservatively 25, maybe 27 of us, and I was the only female. And um yeah, I had more room in the locker room.
Speaker 1:You didn't have to didn't have to wait for a shower.
Speaker:Right, right, exactly.
Speaker 1:Um in that uh and and uh most of the all the uh the women that I've met in my day-to-day job at PepperBall, um it all ranks. Um I to some degree I no longer see much of a difference, frankly, between women and men in that sense. Um I don't uh they they all present themselves in in a in a police kind of in a policing-like role. So I don't really think about it. Um that's part because I've been doing this for a long time. Um but um if I were to think about it, um, there must be differences in terms of being a woman versus a man. So one, you're a minority in that context. Um, so while you do have the locker room to yourself, you are kind of by yourself. Was it was it is it easy, hard to to be a minority in the in that kind of a context in a very, I guess, male-dominated um profession.
Speaker:Well, the academy was difficult, right? And that was my experience that it was difficult just in the on the face of what it is. My you know, my remembering all those years back at the academy, uh no, I didn't find um anything that stood out that made me feel uncomfortable or made it harder, right? It's already a very difficult situation as far as everyone's under pressure. I would say once you're outside of a pressurized situation, is more the time that you can maybe notice some different expectations or different perceptions that people might have. The the biggest difficulty of that is simply that, you know, I have my own profession and my own goals. It's just addressing maybe other people's expectations that are based on their expectations, you know. So um when you mentioned that you have both males and females on on your staff that come from a policing background, and you don't see a difference. Well, right, socially we're socialized in a different way now. We have more women. Um, we get used to certain ways that we see the world, our mental models. And as it slowly changes, we can slowly catch up with it. So um for me in the first part of my career, uh, I I did not feel any extraordinary pressure. I hope that's a you know an answer that doesn't put anyone else that's in um a position of being a the first female or a different diverse position uh questioning it, but I did not at the academy. It more came after I was on the road, and it was the citizens I was addressing that had a different expectation that those types of challenges or situations would arise.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I it's it's funny you say that as you were answering, and you said in the you know, in the crucible of the job or during the time you were doing your when you were working together, um, and particularly in teams, uh it it it makes perfect sense to me that there is no differentiation. You're all part of a team, you've got a job to do, and the the the life and death nature of the job transcends any particular context. I mean, this is what you you see in kind of war movies where you know um people from all walks of life come together and you know they are a band of brothers because you're you know the guy next to you or the la the person next to you is is has your back, right? They they are you are partnering to accomplish a mission, but you're also partnering to protect each other, so to speak. So I it you know kind of all nationalities and races and and and uh female male all kind of blend away. Um is that I think that's what you were trying to say to some degree.
Speaker:I think so to some degree, yeah. So I think that in higher stress situations, um given, and this can be for anybody, you know, woman, man, uh anything as far as diversity goes, if you have conducted yourself in a professional way and you seem competent and able to handle the tasks at hand, your teammates, your coworkers, your surrounding um, you know, associates in high-level and stress situations are looking to you just do your job, you know, or just get us through this or do your part, you know, not that you have to carry everyone. And um that's you know, I think that's human nature to our biases can, I think oftentimes biases can be overcome by professional excellence or by um professional confidence and execution. It doesn't mean that when everything settles down, those biases don't reappear, but hopefully they've shifted some, but that's up to the individual. I can't control that.
Speaker 1:Well, then the the next thing that you said, which then makes perfect sense, is that it's not your um you know the police officer you're in the squad car with, it's gonna be actually the citizens that will probably bring some um um some biases to viewing uh a female in a um uh in a in a police uniform. When you said the citizens themselves, um tell me how it, you know, tell me your experiences in that context.
Speaker:Right. So uh let me just clarify that it's you know, that was my experience. I'm sure that individuals can have the experience of um fellow co-workers or fellow officers having a certain opinion or um expressing a certain bias. My experience more so was just comments um from community members that and and looking back, you know, from the from the point I am now in life, you know, I I don't know that they were said in with um it was just said out of ignorance, no malice perfect words. They weren't said out of malice, you know, whether it be are you sure you know how to use that, meaning you know, my sidearm, or should you be using that? Should you be using that? And oftentimes it would come from an older guy that uh possibly came from uh he's just just saying it out of I don't know how to say this perfectly, but really being um like concerned for me, and that's the social context that you have to work through and really work on not becoming negative about it, but understanding it deeper. Now, that's not to say there's not situations that people do have malice or don't think you should be where you're at. That occurs for sure. Um and but in some ways I think it's handled the same way. Personally, I think it's handled the same way. You got to look at where it's coming from, what the intention is, and um do your best to do the to do your best. And and really it's not about them.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, and I think uh I could easily see that, right? It's um it's kind of this naive, uh, this innocent, in quotes, naivety, um, and you know, someone who would um you know view you in a as a as a daughter or view you as a sister, not as a you know police officer, you know, enforcing the law, or at least they would put that kind of a lens on it. Um and um I imagine that you know it it it probably was it was um it was uh interesting initially, but to your point, over time it probably just made you more empathetic in some ways.
Speaker:Um yeah, so let me also just clarify it there were times that there probably there was malice too, you know, people do have hard opinions, but over time, I consider myself to be a pretty empathetic person, and I I consider that to come more from my upbringing and the types of um cases that I handled predominantly as an investigator. Uh, I think that really built upon my empathy. I believe when it comes to some maybe social ignorance or some um worldviews that counterdict, you know, letting me be my best self, I have some empathy, and but often and and more so than not, now I have some empathy, but I also just move on um because I can't change everybody's mind, and that's not my goal in life. So I do have more empathy around that, but I don't know that it gets the highest level of energy from me, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:No, it does. It's um what I've had other um um you know uh folks who have served um on that side of the blue line, they talk about it. It's um, you know, there's the it's you you you you gotta be thoughtful about what you absorb and what you take personally, and you really have to, you know, the majority of the feedback that you're getting you can't take personally, and you can't absorb because to your point it drains you, um, it irritates you, frustrates you in a way that's not consistent with the the you know the your training and not consistent with what you're supposed to do in that job. Um which you know, I I always felt you know the as the amount of patience and the amount of of uh what I would call um the ability to depersonalize when you see uh a lot of the body cams I see, police officers are do a wonderful job with that, um an amazing job, right? Of not taking things personally. Um because it it it would be you know it's just human nature to do it. Um and so you know that's um that that that that that makes sense. It makes total sense to me. What was the decision to leave policing? Why did you decide to move on to what you're doing now?
Speaker:Good question. I wasn't anticipating that one. Uh like that. I like that interview style, right? You got to catch them off guard. Um well let me start it off with that I loved my career. I really did. Was it easy? No. Um, I had a supportive administration, I had a um direct boss that was phenomenal. Um, it was purely looking at kind of the time and energy. You know, we're all very different creatures, and I am all in when I'm in something, and I found I I wasn't balancing properly in my personal life, my professional life. And I looked at my goal was to do the 25 years, and I had my military time that I could put um on the back of that. And uh an opportunity arise for me to do some more of some private security. And and if I could it use this kind of bridge to clarify a little at the beginning, you mentioned coaching and leadership. That's a huge part of my background and my training. I don't necessarily do it so much now, with I would be open to it, but what keeps me uh professionally busy now is um security within corporations, and I'm sub-subcontracted to do that on a team. And um that opportunity there that I just mentioned with a different company presented itself for me to do it much more. And I love travel. I love international travel, I love national travel, I love being around cultures I've never been around before, people that I've never been around before. And um with that presenting itself and then an opportunity to teach at a local university, I just decided it was time to pass the baton. And um I left. I hope I, at least in my opinion, I left on a high. You know, I was in a position I had incredible people that I was responsible to. And um I just felt like it was a very natural step out instead of getting to a point where I've seen so many. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of people in law enforcement that they've put their heart and soul, and when they leave, they're so drained. And I just didn't want to hit that point and leave. I wanted to leave when I was at the point I was at. I hope that answered it.
Speaker 1:No, good for you. Um what you know, uh um, and and actually there's a number of folks at PepperBall who um uh did exactly that. They left and they they um you know they continue to they train for PepperBall, but they do a lot of work in private security. Um and it's a way to use their skills in a different context, um the same situation, awareness, leadership, um, you know, and and security, frankly. Um what do you miss? If tell me two things that you miss most uh about your your time as a police um officer and executive, and two things that you don't miss.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker 1:By the way, listeners, I didn't prep her,
Speaker:You can see the wheels turning. You know, what's very interesting is uh my first my first thought is some of the things that I miss the most are some of the things I don't miss as well. So I loved uh the Detective Investigation Bureau. I love that type of work. I always said I made my way on patrol, you know, I did it, I did it well, but I really think I um my passion was in investigations and leadership. And I miss the teamwork that happens when there's a big case, regardless if it's a homicide, if it's a shooting, if it's a uh a major assault. You know, I miss that teamwork and camaraderie camaraderie if you have the right people around you. But yet I don't miss the energy that that also draws from you. You know, as a as a captain, I was always, I tried to at least be always very mindful of my people's energy levels and where where energy was being taken, right? And that that includes what's going on at home for them if I'm privy to that information. That includes health, excuse me, health issues they might have. That includes what case did they walk in on yesterday? Did they walk in on a suicide or a something to do with a child? And now what are they doing today? Right. So that stuff I miss because I really took it to heart and I felt so much fulfillment from being kind of the guardian, guardian of those environments for uh my employees or my my reports, but yet I don't miss how exhausted I would become when I would come home. Right. So it's the balance. Um maybe that's one in one.
Speaker 1:Um I'll give you, you know, maybe in the background you can think of a couple more, but you know, I want to uh uh we talk a lot about mental health, um in the in the just the the horrific challenge that it presents for uh for police officers. You know, they experience you know somewhere between you know 40 to 60 traumatic events in their career, and an average you know, person myself would uh experience three or four. You know, it just does take a toll. As a I hadn't thought about this in you know, when the examples people would always give me on these podcasts is you know, day-to-day patrol, you know, you you walk in on a suicide or you see a child abused. Um I hadn't thought about it, but let me ask, as a detective who's trying to solve the case, you then sit with it for weeks and weeks, right? I mean, it's it's it's it's that visual, that image, the the the victim stays with you. Is that it's almost like it's a prolonged exposure to that trauma. Is that am I thinking about it the right way?
Speaker:Or yeah, I actually appreciate that insight that you're actually having that because that is, and it's you know, with this, what I'm about to like conversation we're gonna have takes nothing away from the patrol experience because that is absolutely its own kind of you know thing to deal with as well. So, but my my long-term experience within the Detective Bureau investigation bureau, that's where the majority of my time was spent as a police officer. I was always very mindful of that with the people around me, that um, you know, if it's a uh an injured or deceased child or um a suicide event that yes, patrols exposed, but now well, suicide event, I'd have to take that back because that does close quicker as long as it's a known suicide. But maybe a homicide, a brutal homicide, or something like that. Um you you have ownership of it, right? You you feel like I had a case that involved an infant that after it closed, I remember after the verdict came down, after there was a sentencing, I asked my supervisor if I could keep the case in my desk. I still felt a level of um protection for that child. And even though the outcome was um good for the system as far as how it went through, that child still wasn't on this earth, right? So there's a level that you do take it with you. I can, you know, this is I can feel myself tearing up thinking about it. Um with that and in a leadership capacity, and and I was allowed to lead in a certain way, and I give that I give that credit to the leaders above me at my department at the time, and some are still there. And um you really have to be aware of your your people's mental health and what they are hanging on to. And by doing that, you almost bring in your skills of an interviewing and different things of that because you're paying attention to body language, word usage, um just physical appearance, conversation tone, ability to engage, all of the above. And as their boss, um you just you just have to step up for them in those ways and and try to figure out ways. So yes, I I think you do live with it more prolonged. However, I don't want to negate any experience on patrol either, because you are exposed to in patrol, you're exposed to like your emotions are up and then you're you know you're going lights and firings. Right. Yeah, it lights and sirens, and then you have to stop, and then you have to be this gathered together person and fix it all. That is humanly very hard. So um, yeah, the those experiences are different, but the investigative experience is definitely something that you do, there's a level of ownership you feel.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, no, I mean it I would imagine day-to-day patrol, to your point, it's it's un it's it's you never it you're always looking around the next corner for the next. This is like the jump scare in a in a bad um horror movie, you know. You you're on edge waiting for where in the detective in this in working a case, um it's this extended, you know, it's um it's like reading the script of the horror movie, so to speak, and just being immersed in in the pain. Um, I I hadn't I've never talked to a I've never talked to I've never talked about this topic on the podcast. Um as a as a detective, as a managing the case, you need you need to deal with the victims' um families. It must be um horrific to try to um to interview them, to try to um um uh to keep them appraised of the case to those that you close, you know, does it really even bring closure? I mean, it must be I mean gratifying in many ways to try to solve it for them, but in what a uh an emotional experience that you have to go through with those families.
Speaker:Yeah, that's totally accurate. It is emotional. It um it requires a lot of strength. I think it requires a lot of self-mastery, a lot of self-resilience, a lot of self-care, and um to do it right and be and be still be good for yourself and those in your personal life, you have to really be aware of all of those moving parts. And um regarding the families, it it makes an impact. I think even when you maybe don't get an outcome that would be more um acceptable to the family, if you care during the case and you care after the case and you follow up, and um I mean, follow up. I mean, you there's some cases that you can go, they just stick with you and it impacts those individuals, just like us in our personal lives, right? When someone goes out of their way, when they know we're a busy individual, or look at you know, you're the CEO of Pepper Ball, and for whatever reason, you reach out during a very busy day and check in with someone that they wouldn't expect you to. That means a lot, and um, that doesn't fill the hole that they might have, but at least let it let people know that someone else truly did care about the outcome. And um, you know, it's a high expectation to place, let me say that. Uh I'll keep going back to that. At least if you approach your situations that way, that's it's how I would try. I didn't always succeed. And I would see so many of my people do it this way. I I just had an incredible staff. And um all you can do is do your best. And and uh when you keep that communication or you follow up, it does make a difference. With that, your caseload can be phenomenal, right? So this socially there can be an expectation of that on every case, and sometimes it's just not humanly possible.
Speaker 1:Moving on, uh and and um you know, at such a rich area. Um I I I think, you know, I I always go back to these discussions and I always say to myself, you know, you you people so underappreciate the emotional um challenge of this uh policing, um whether it be you know the the day-to-day patrol jump scare, you know, constantly on edge, um, or it be this engaging with families who are going through horrific pain where you have to, you know, you you are a um you are a an and uh a pillar of strength that they lean on um and they and they use as part of their recovery, right? You are part of their path, hopefully back to some degree of of um you know of processing what they're going through. Um it's such a you know, it's such an emotional toll. Um it's just it's it's humbling, I think is maybe the best way of saying it. And I just don't think people really appreciate it. Um not nothing for you to you're happy to comment on. I'm just more making an observation. Um what you do now, um and and and and and the and and being a um and teaching, um do you uh what lessons did were you able to draw from what you did in the policing world to what you do now? Um, you know, how has it helped you um do what you do?
Speaker:Um massively, um obviously awareness, you know, risk assessments, awareness. Communication is the foundation, right? So a good patrol officer, a good investigator, detective, leader, uh they communicate well. They set an expectation of communication, they're clear. They communicate to the person not how you think it needs to be delivered, but how they need to receive it. Um that that experience over a number of years, uh, mainly in the interview room and then with my directory, my um office and whatnot, has been beyond beneficial to talking to individuals in the corporate sector and being able to understand where they the level of understanding they have, and then being able to deliver the deliver the information around security in a way that is understandable to them and how it in a way that it's valuable to them. So I would say communication and the opportunities, you know, we talk about all the challenges and struggles with law enforcement, and they do exist. It's also one of those careers that give you opportunities. Speaking just obviously from my experience, um, I don't have any other career in the past, but it gives you an opportunity to really, really build upon your skill set of um being a good human, right? Or communicating, being observant with people, even in the boardroom, and and then um getting your message across in a way that is accepted and um in a learning environment. So that's my biggest takeaway.
Speaker 1:And uh and I could I'll echo that in the sense of um or reinforce it in the police officers, the retired police officers that we have on staff at PepperBall. Um as you were talking, I realized that as they communicate to me, it's different how they communicate to each other. And um I and um and I know that they are empathetic and sensitive. Um so for example, uh, you know, simple example, I do not own a gun, and I don't, I'm not a gun owner, right? And so they are yet, and they are, of course. Um uh and so they how they talk to me about gun ownership is uh is a interesting, you know, is an example of how they they have to understand my orientation. And you know, they'll teach me, you know, they've taken me out to show me how to use a firearm, and and they're it's it's they're to your point, they're very they're very agile emotionally and intellectually in understanding the audience and how to tailor the message. And I think that's an underappreciated benefit that you get out of policing. Um big time, huge. Now, the one this is more a curiosity question. Um, and I as I tell my friends and my particularly my four boys, uh, that uh police officers are fantastically uh um uh attuned to people who lie and to people who bullshit. Um uh they are you have a huge bullshit meter kind of uh sensor. Is that do you uh did I assume that that carried with you after you left the profession?
Speaker:Well, it sounds kind of mystical, so I hope it did. Um what's my bullshit reader? Um you know, I would I would hesitate to say that I can like read someone and know I ask questions, right? And oftentimes, you know, that whether it's a taught skill or otherwise, just in watching people and how they deliver, mind you, you have to know who they are prior to talking to them, right? So someone may be stiff all of their life, but um yeah, yeah. I I don't know if I I don't know if I have a great bullshit reader, but I do ask a lot of questions and then I do formulate my opinion. And oftentimes I'm right. With that being said, that's you you brought up an interesting thought if I could expand on it. And it kind of taked a little bit out of the realm of your of your mess of what you just said, is that used to be a talking point when we were talking our office or in trainings around investigation and interviewing, is a big thing about going into an interview, you have to be prepared to move in any direction, right? I love the word agile that you used in our thinking. So, in an interview, especially with a suspect, because they're trying to evade the truth, if in fact they're guilty. You have to be prepared if they say this, you're gonna go here. If they say this, you're gonna go here. If you get, and it's a lot going on. And with all of that, you then also have to constantly check your own bias, right? So we we we can't we're like, oh this person's lying to me, and you know darn well there's always points in our life that something comes up, we're like, oh wow, they weren't. So um, when you're doing an interview, you have to really go with your gut while keeping an open mind that you might be wrong because we're not truth tellers and and nor are we um judge and jury, right? So um I think we have pretty good bullshit meters, however, I don't rely on it completely. Now in my life, at this point in my life, my bullshit reader tells me when to walk away. You know, I don't want to deal with that anymore.
Speaker 1:Correct. So yeah, yeah. Well, but that's like I uh another I'm not putting you to sleep, am I? No, no, no, no. Um I close my eyes, you know, the the audience can't see, we can see each other, and so I'm closing my eyes because I'm I'm deep in thought. It's the the question that comes, I hadn't thought about it, but it's probably very true is you have to be when you walk into someone in in an interrogation, you have to be to some degree intellectually uh to your point agile, but you have to be intellectually honest. You can't go in and you can't let your instincts drive a conclusion because it I would imagine that in some cases your instincts were wrong, right? Where you thought the person was guilty and then they turned out not to be, and the vice versa. How I mean, was that more the case than not? Or I mean that's I don't know there's no way to measure that where you had a suspicion and you were wrong, or you had a suspicion and you were right.
Speaker:Um you know, I I didn't really don't have a percentage on that. But what I would say is I was um very high percentage on gathering as much evidence that was possible and then letting the conclusion show itself. That was my goal. You know, you you really have to gather as much evidence as possible. And if you go into an interview with a ton of really solid evidence or a good gut feeling, it's gonna guide your questions. With that, though, you may not get the end result you want. All you can do is the best thing you can do, right? All you can do is the best. So um, percentage-wise, I I really couldn't tell you, you know, if my gut was right 50% of the time or wrong 50% of the time. I don't not really sure on that. But I know that um I always tried to get as much evidence documented and otherwise, so that in all honesty, that is shown at a jury. So when in my investigative years, I mightominantly did sex crimes and um adult and child abuse. So those go to trial a lot, a lot. And my theory is no one wants to admit to any of that stuff. So oftentimes they go to trial because then they can go to prison even still telling their family they're innocent. Does that make any sense?
Speaker 1:Oh, it makes uh a heck of a lot of sense. Uh yeah.
Speaker:So I I yeah, so I was in a courtroom a lot for testifying, and and a lot of times that taught me a lot too is you have to make sure that you aren't doing things only on gut. Gut is really important, but you also have to be able to present it to people and say this is what it is. You know, it's based on evidence at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, it's uh I I was on a call before we started here with the fire chief, and he was making um he was made in as you know, firefighters um they're like um the uh brothers to the police officers and they kid each other about their tendencies. Yes. And um and he was saying something to the effect. He said, Well, fire chiefs are just too polite to give you feedback, and police chiefs are too suspicious to uh feedback. And and maybe it's not that they're too suspicious, is that they I think police officers are that they accept that the the truth is not particularly obvious, and so they will not take anything at face value because they've seen where they've been right and they've seen where they've been wrong. And so face you know, taking something at face value is not what a police officer does. They have to actually, to your point, is it in your role, you have to unearth the true, the full set of facts and the full story and let that let the let the facts play out.
Speaker:Right. They're naturally inquisitive in nature, I would think.
Speaker 1:Well, Kristen, I you know, um I I I hadn't even looked at the clock. Um, I'm well beyond the time um that uh most people will um um let me drone on. Um this has been um so fascinating. Um and I've been I've learned so much. Um thank you. Um I did have one last question for you as we um kind of conclude. We like to make a small donation to a charity of your choice. Um and um um appreciate if um you could tell us what charity we could make that donation to.
Speaker:Sure, that that's very uh generous of you. Uh in Niagara County, there's a um organization organization called Serve Niagara, S-E-R-V Niagara, and they serve veterans in the area predominantly around the holiday season. So it's kind of apropos as well for the season. So that would be my choice.
Speaker 1:Well, fantastic. Serve Niagara. Um Kristen, thank you so much for taking the time. I would it was uh it was great to have you on, and thank you for sharing your experience both today and kind of in the past, and at least for me, um, a lot of lessons learned. So thank you.
Speaker:Well, thank you. I enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker 1:Well, folks, um, you know, um this was fascinating. Um I I kind of came into the discussion um, you know, with an interest in what a um a woman goes through, um, and why they join, some of the challenges they face. And I walked away um learning a lot more about um um not so much uh a woman. It reminded me that you know it's a band of it's you know, they are police officers um um in the in the pitch of the battle. You know, they do their jobs and they don't really look at each other as a man or a woman or black or white, or um that's not really the that's not really relevant. Um and so the discussion around the being a woman or not was less interesting and far more interesting to learn how a detective um thinks and and some of the emotional and mental challenges that detective takes on. And it really opened up this notion of me understanding that police officers are not you know suspicious. Um what they are is they don't take things at face value and that they're they're trained and they're paid, and that we want them not to take things at face value. We need them to not react to their instincts, we need them to be focused on um unearthing facts and and unearthing what really happened, uh, because that is the nature of policing, particularly in the investigative side of it. So I came in with one point of view, and I now leave with another, which I'm deeply grateful for helping. So um we wrap up here. Um for those listening uh during the holidays, let me um um let me say happy holidays to you. Um, but then let me finish up by saying um this is another episode of First Response. Um this is the podcast talk about um first responders and what they deal with and they're kind of what how they are as humans behind the badge. Um I will thank again um Pepperball, who sponsors this podcast at where I am uh the CEO. And um Pepperball, as you may know or not know, creates non lethal alternatives to guns that police use to keep themselves and their public safe. So uh thanks very much. I wish everyone happy holidays, and we'll probably see you on the other side of uh 2026.
